This came about due to a conversation my wife and I had about a friend of hers. The sexual side of things has always been something that's bugged her about the whole concept. We got to talking about it recently and I told her the sexual side isn't one of the things that makes me interested in polygamy. She couldn't believe me and wanted to know why I would want to then.
Granted, I've of course considered that aspect, but I truly can say in all honesty that it does not make me want to do this any more or any less than otherwise. I tried explaining to my wife that I have always been more than satisfied sexually and asked her what I would possibly want that she hasn't already provided or isn't willing to provide. That stumped her a bit, but I think she's still skeptical... So I spouted out some of the reasons below but I really hadn't sat down to start a list of the things.
These aren't so much spiritual I guess as they are practical since I don't think my wife has really grasped onto the importance of this principle.
From a husband's perspective:
Pro's:
- Joy of expanding a tight-knit family
- Assuming it is required at some point (now or after death), get a head start. Would rather be able to pick someone who's compatible and good now than sort through those that didn't get married already. Higher chance that there's a REASON they were alone... Yes, this is cruel perhaps, but I know even many of my wife's single friends are single for good reason.
- I enjoy having the opportunity to take care of people.
- Have someone to do things with "boss lady" (from Big Love of course) when interests match or I'm busy, etc...
- Someone to share the load of household chores/errands/etc...
- Can provide someone deserving of a strong, healthy, and good relationship.
- Share and grow our love
- Additional income possibilities
- Much increased self-reliance. Working towards a common goal in preparedness.
- Additional financial obligation
- Dealing with two different female personalities
- Dealing with jealousy issues that araise.
- Figuring out family logistics and planning (insurance, legal issues, schedules, etc...)
- How to live public and private household/life. Can we be fully integrated or need to separate things out?
- Family/friends reactions
- Not so much a con as a challenge (could be fun/exciting, just have to be aware)... Ensuring equal treatment of wives in gifts, time, etc... Not on an exactly 1:1 ratio necessarily, just need to be always aware and not neglect anyone.
Pro's:
- Having a female partner to bounce ideas off of and relate with
- Have someone to help share the load of household chores and errands
- Build another eternal loving relationship
- Time spent together with husband is more special since it's more restricted.
- Truly embrace the "sister" in sister-wife.
- More time to pursue personal and other valuable hobbies and also have someone that is interested and can learn with where interests overlap (gardening, chickens, sewing, nutrition/cooking, makeup, etc...)
- Other similar pro's to husband
- Dealing with jealousy issues regarding affection shown towards other wife, loss of exclusivity for time and attention, sexual interactions, etc...
- Another person to participate in decisions (can be a pro too of course)
- Other similar con's to husband
Pro's:
- Stability of coming into an established relationship
- Opportunity to pick a proven "good man", not just a guess at the best "single" man.
- Similar pro's to 1st wife.
Con's:
- Coming into relationship can be difficult as an outsider. Some risk involved.
- Can't expect full "tenure" right off the bat. Must be earned through trust, trial, and time. This is something I'm torn on and struggle with. On one side I want everyone to be on an equal footing as far as the family goes. At the same time, how can I put to risk a decade of effort and give equally "right off the bat" without some kind of proving process? This is a very difficult one for me.
- Similar con's to 1st wife.
This is great stuff (very male, though . . [the lists, I mean . . .] ).
ReplyDeleteMy turn -
Think of it like a tripod (or three-legged stool). When you find a potential "eternal" mate, there are three main categories by which to "vet" the candidate: 1. Appearance (i.e. visual appeal) [NOTE - this attribute is not considered by those who embrace "arranged" marriages]; 2. Compatibility (e.g. same aspirations, mindset, tastes, etc.); and - 3. GOD WANTS YOU TO BE TOGETHER. IMHO the stool falls over if less than all three of the legs are in place.
Outsiders often ask if what drives folks into polygamy is the theology or the libido. Frankly, if either is absent, it will be a rough ride.
Imagine four days into your honeymoon, new bride rolls over and asks, "You DO like the way I look, don't you?" - and you say, "Heck, no, I just wanted a bigger family, and Joseph Smith authorized it" . . . . . . .
Truth is - you should want to add a new wife to your family for all the same reasons for which you added the first, unless the first marriage was just the result of too much late night cuddling in the BYU dorm parking lot.
In Brigham Young's era, many fervent anti-polygamy authors excoriated the Mormons for their putative lasciviousness. Mormon leaders hyper-countered with vigorous disclaimers - that they married ONLY for doctrinal reasons, and that the marriages were platonic and sterile. Who was fooling whom?
If it is done the right way, and God is the primary matchmaker, then all of the beauty will be in place for the new matrimony. Just as in the first marriage, the thrilling romantic glow of courtship and newly-weddedness will fade over the course of months. Some first wives say - "NOT SOON ENOUGH !!!" Others say, "Why would I deprive her of what I had?"
Marriage is meant to be eternal. It is meant also to train us to look at things in the "long-view", eternal context. We live on a telestial planet in (at best) a telestial society. We have to stretch and transcend our human trashyness. Higher laws invite us to aspire to loftier things.
The goal is to team up with other saints along the way and grow together and learn from each other. A lot of the growth we gain in life comes about because of our "brushes" with other people. Some people act as "signposts" along the way. Others join us and become permanent fellow travelers.
One good key is to always try to tap into the source of true inspiration so as not to misstep. Remember, however, that one of the tests of those who seek the higher laws is the decoy(s). You will be introduced to false concepts and false spirits. You will, at some point, at least momentarily lose your grasp on the "iron rod", and the biggest test of your life will be in finding your way back to it with whatever faculties you can muster. You are not able to fully help others until you have passed that test. Then your compass will have been properly calibrated. You have to know how to distinguish between false teachings and divine ones. You have to be able to tap into the divine "frequency" so as not to be diverted by vain traditions and the "arm of flesh". You also have to earn answers through faith leaps (a little like the party gag where you fall over backwards while someone catches you [before your head smacks on the floor]). Your "trust/confidence" factor is that much greater after you've experienced the "payout" of a successful faith test. Whom the "Lord loveth" He chasteneth (testeth!).
One more thought - -
ReplyDeleteRemember the parable of the "Workers in the Vineyard". An incoming wife is no less complete a human being than the existing wife. She cannot have a political station lower than another's. I know that some august early leaders had head-wives (they also had HELL ON EARTH !!!). Between the lines, though, wives will find their own chemistry, frictions, qualities and pecking orders. It has to do with personality types and integrity quotients. If you add women to your family in a manner that lacks integrity and revelation, you will lose wives faster than you gain them.
I like the tripod analogy very much! I didn't mean to say my pro/con list is the exclusive list for how I'd choose a 2nd wife, but I definitely was trying to focus more on the non-physical/sexual aspects so I can eventually illustrate to my wife that's not the only reason for doing this.
ReplyDeleteMy wife is certainly in the "NOT SOON ENOUGH" camp, if she would tolerate it at all. Like I've said before, that's her biggest hurdle I know and what I have to be patient and work with her on. I'm trying to get her to live the principle in her heart first... babysteps.
I hope you don't mind but I'm going to give excerpts of your comment to my wife to read. You put certain things together better than I would.
Tapping into true inspiration is a challenge and one of my bigger concerns. Already I've had feelings about different things and it's been difficult at times to determine if I'm being given a truth or if it's rooted in worldliness (is that a word?).
(Sidenote: My wife just sent me a txt saying she had a dream last night they called me to be bishop. If they only knew!)
Lastly regarding "Workers in the Vineyard". Not that this changes anything, but when I said tenure I didn't mean in decision making, etc... It's just hard for me right now to trust someone enough to give them an equal share of our estate when my wife and I have worked so hard to get to where we are. Which isn't even "that" great, but the natural man in me worries about just giving someone so much without being proven. I know in my heart that it comes back to receiving a spiritual knowledge they are right, my BRAIN just has difficulty with that right now. I don't think it will pose a lasting barrier by any means, just one of my current concerns/issues that I need to work through.
Thanks for such a helpful comment though, MUCH appreciated!
I was thinking about this thread while driving home from work and realized your "require" statement was probably in regards to my pro talking about if practicing polygamy is "required" in the future...
ReplyDeleteI just wanted to throw out there that I didn't mean that as a bad thing or that I was looking at it as something I didn't have a choice in, just that if there are certain things God requires of us (which he does), then I might as well try and get working on it! Hope that clarifies that a bit..
Bishop John,
ReplyDeleteI think it was Brigham Young who said that plural marriage and consecration are inseparable. I have seen pain in those plural families that don't consecrate. There is no instruction manual for consecration (any more than there is one for plural marriage). Righteous dominion is a good key, though. The toughest challenge for any Priesthood-holder is the delicate balance between dominion and agency. Nothing will teach it to you faster than practicing it.
On the subject of your wife:
She either IS or IS NOT equipped to rise to the "occasion". You will learn the answer over time. Defer first to the Lord's signals to you - then secondly to the degree of progress/epiphany you detect in her. Remember that HER free agency is what you have to jealously protect. If God were to signal you to add another wife, and she were to reject it entirely, you would have to get definitive confirmation from Him to proceed. Without it you would have to "stand down". Possible outcomes are:
1. Wife wants an answer but can't get one.
2. Wife wants an answer and gets a real one which is "NO".
3. Wife wants an answer and gets a real one which is "YES", and signs on.
4. Wife wants an answer and gets a real one which is "YES" but still won't sign on.
5. Wife doesn't want an answer and won't try to get one.
Rough huh ??
Some idiot guys try to "have the cake and eat it too", either by getting cuddly with the new prospect (an UTTER NO-NO) or by only half-disclosing the nature of the relationship to the first wife.
Remember that, where much is given, much is expected. You cannot put the cat back in the bag. If you do this right, it will be a partnership between you and God, and he won't steer you wrong (even though everybody else will !!!).
So... how much do you charge for motivational talks? I need to get you and my wife together for a little chat. Kidding of course. Right now she's closest to scenario 5 you've outlined. She finds the subject interesting and even came up with her own pro/con list (not nearly as exhaustive as mine), but she always maintains there is no way she will ever consider practicing it.
ReplyDeleteIt's somewhat discouraging and certainly frustrating, but I will continue along and see how things go.
No worries on the "idiot guys" part. I consider those kind of actions dishonest and extremely counter-productive to what I view as true eternal happiness as a family.
Lastly, I know what you bring up with consecration is true and I really love the principle. I think it's extremely hard to practice and all attempts I've read about or have known personally fail miserably. However, I've never actually thought about it at the individual family level and that is extremely interesting to me. I think I've found a new topic for study. I don't really want to get off course from the matter of polygamy, however I think it directly relates (like you point out) AND addresses one of the biggest hurdles I face about polygamy right now.
On the topic of consecration - here are a few of my thoughts:
ReplyDelete1. It is better if you play "Treasurer" (Bishop John).
2. Have both wives write a list of their needs and wants (2 columns - left column needs, right column wants).
3. Collect the lists every week and decide what can be afforded, then review those conclusions privately with each wife. Scratch off the items you've agreed to fund.
4. Try as a "threesome" to meet and decide what BOTH wives should have each month as "pocket-money" - I mean money for which there is ZERO accountability. They can burn it if they want. If the family is poor, then it may just be $50.00. If you are financially comfortable, it should be enough to allow each wife to get things she shouldn't be troubling you for (unlike vehicles, appliances, furniture, and other big assets.
5. All income should go into the "pot".
6. If a relative directs a gift or sum of money to just one of the wives, don't freak out, just work on finding a way to re-balance things eventually so as not to create an inequity in the family. (Remember a family should prosper or suffer uniformly).
7. There is no "rules" manual that says that you should start changing the names on deeds and titles on day one. That is a process that should occur over time and should hinge on the ages of the parties and the family's contingency plans.
8. #7 doesn't keep you from the day-to-day business of fairness, sharing and consecration.
9. Lastly - and MOST importantly, plural marriage necessarily creates the rather idiosyncratic phenomenon of unspoken common intimacy. I mean - you don't talk to Phoebe about what you share in private with Sophie - and vice versa. However, if they have ANY brains, they can easily surmise what might be occurring behing closed doors. The best of all possible worlds is when neither of them shudders at the thought. Each thinks, "Boy, I love my sister-wife so much - - I hope she is the beneficiary of all the fulfillment possible."
Now think about common economic intimacy - how can a man let one of his wives live in economic comfort while the other is struggling? That is why the two higher laws unite (forgive me) the SEX and the MONEY. This may prompt you to ask whether wives should occupy the same dwelling. Well, ask yourself if you want to commute to see your kids half the time. Ask yourself if women will have a greater opportunity to forge a lasting bond of sisterhood if they live 25 yards apart or 25 miles apart.
That's very much how I view finances and how we currently work them in our household. We base ours off the Dave Ramsey method and it seems to work pretty well for us.
ReplyDelete"Boy, I love my sister-wife so much - - I hope she is the beneficiary of all the fulfillment possible."
THAT certainly is the dream. A distant one at this point but with patience... who knows.
I've already decided and my wife agrees that IF we were to ever do it, it would have to be a close family arrangement. Living in the same house or worst case very close houses (same street aka Big Love). I just couldn't do something across town, just not for me.