"It is more complex and challenging than simple monogamy"True, but I've got to tell you the challenge excites me like I can't describe. I think I've realized the past few days that I have always been a polygamist at heart and just pushed it out of me because I was raised being told it was bad/evil/mistake.
"Woodruff got a revelation in Nov'1889 telling him to make no more concessions concerning plural marriage. When he did finally publish the Manifesto (a document that had been being edited for five years), only three of the 15 apostles would even sign it."I would really REALLY love some kind of proof for this. Not that I doubt it's true as that seems entirely likely. I just love having facts to back things up, especially as I have some pretty insightful and honest conversations about this subject with one of my coworkers. If someone can provide something that'd be great, otherwise I've got more research to do it seems!
"Woodruff added a plural wife in 1896....In fact, the 1889 revelation was the last one Woodruff received. In it, the Lord promised him that, were he to relent on plural marriage, the heavenly manifestations would cease"Again, I hate to be a stickler, but some citations or references I could check out would be GREAT. I checked out FamilySearch.org and it doesn't show him adding any wives then so I'm very curious to see that...
Regarding the quote of John Taylor from the Deseret News in 1885. Wow. That's pretty strong wording and consequences. Best of all... it makes sense.
"One of the things a lot of people simply don't grasp about this life (or plural marriage in this life) is that this life is an apprenticeship - and, for the children of the Lord's House, it is an apprenticeship for Godhood"Exactly! Now that's not to say that I believe God requires us to live 100% to his standards in this life to attain eventual Godhood. We all make mistakes and it's about continual progression. So I don't fault anyone who feels unable or inadequate to live the principle. At the same time, I can't express how much it baffles me that the punishment for trying to live a higher law is complete excommunication. It makes no sense to me. The only possible excuse/reason I see is obeying the laws of the land. But I don't see illegal aliens resulting in excommunication so that's bogus as far as I'm concerned. If you're able to live the principle now, great.
That certainly sums up my situation. The hardest thing for her would be sharing me sexually (not that I'm anything to talk about, but she would be very jealous of this). Followed closely by just having to share my time at all when currently she has 100% of my attention when we're together at home.
"She has deep insecurities... which would keep her from being a good sister-wife. She believes she "owns" her husband and WILL NOT share him."
The rest of those last two comments I really don't know how to respond at this point, it's pretty much far beyond my current level of comprehension. Suffice it to say that I am big on preparedness and have many of the same concerns regarding the current and future state of affairs we will face.
Thanks again for all the great comments. They are VERY thought-provoking to say the least!
FINAL REVELATION TO THE CHURCH
ReplyDeleteREVELATION OF NOVEMBER 24, 1889
Given Through Wilford Woodruff
Salt Lake City, Utah
REVELATION given through President Wilford Woodruff, November 24, 1889. Given in answer to his prayer about making concessions to the Government and the courts in regard to plural marriages. Church Presidency not to deny His law, make promises or pledges to the enemies, Judgments at the door. Anointed to keep commandments and exercise faith.
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1. "Thus saith the Lord to my servant Wilford. I, the Lord, have heard thy prayers and thy request, and will answer thee by the voice of my spirit.
2. Thus saith the Lord unto my servants the presidency of My Church, who hold the Keys of the Kingdom of God on the earth. I the Lord hold the destiny of the courts in your midst, and the destiny of this nation, and the destiny of all other nations of the earth, in mine own hands, and all that I have revealed and promised and decreed concerning the generation in which you live shall come to pass, and no power shall stay my hand.
3. Let not my servants who are called to the presidency of my Church deny my word or my law, which concerns the salvation of the children of men.
4. Let them pray for the Holy Spirit which shall be given them to guide them in their acts.
5. Place not yourselves in jeopardy to your enemies by promise."
6. Your enemies seek your destruction and the destruction of my people.
7. If the Saints will hearken unto my voice, and the counsel of my servants, the wicked shall not prevail.
8. Let my servants who officiate as your counselors before the courts make their pleadings as they are moved upon by the Holy Spirit, without any further pledges from my Priesthood.
9. I, the Lord, will hold the courts, with the officers of government and the nation responsible for their acts towards the inhabitants of Zion.
10. I, Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the world, am in your midst. I am your advocate with the Father.
11. Fear not, little flock, it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the Kingdom.
12. Fear not the wicked and ungodly.
13. Search the scriptures, for they are they which testify of me; also those revelations which I have given to my servant Joseph, and to all my servants since the world began, which are recorded in the record of divine truth.
14. Those revelations contain the judgments of God which are to be poured out upon all nations under the heavens, which include Great Babylon. These judgments are at the door. They will be fulfilled as God lives.
15. Leave judgment with me, it is mine, saith the Lord.
16. Watch the signs of the times and they will show the fulfillment of the words of the Lord. Let my servants call upon the Lord in mighty prayer, retain the Holy Ghost as your constant companion and act as you are moved upon by the Spirit, and all will be well with you.
17. The wicked are fast ripening in iniquity, and they will be cut off by the judgments of God.
18. Great events await you and this generation and are nigh at your doors.
19. Awake! O Israel, and have faith in God and his promises and he will not forsake you.
20. I the Lord will deliver my Saints from the dominion of the wicked in mine own due time and way.
21. I cannot deny my Word, neither in blessings nor judgments. Therefore let mine anointed gird up their loins, watch and be sober, and keep my commandments.
22. Pray always and faint not. Exercise faith be in the Lord and in the promises of God; be valiant in the testimony of Jesus Christ.
23. The eyes of the Lord and the Heavenly Hosts are watching over you and your acts. Therefore be faithful until I come. I come quickly to reward every man, according to the deeds done in the body. Even so, Amen."
http://www.xmission.com/~plporter/lds/chron.htm
ReplyDeleteThe above link provides a good thumbnail summary of some of the events involving polygamy in the early and transitioning church.
I recommend "Solemn Covenant" by B. Carmon Hardy, and "Origins of Power" by D. Michael Quinn. Both of these authors were in good standing in the Church until the controversies got too intense.
"The only possible excuse/reason I see is obeying the laws of the land."
ReplyDeleteThis is another one of those misunderstoodisms.
Ask yourself what is the "Law of the Land"?
Answer: THE CONSTITUTION.
In a speech in Hawaii in 1987, Justice Thurgood Marshall declared that, although the Union survived the Civil War, the Constitution did not (!!!!!!!!!!!). He knew, as well as do many Constitutional scholars, that the 14th Amendment and the original Constitution are at odds and cannot co-exist. The 14th Amendment effectively turned formerly sovereign citizens into 'subjects' of "Congress". Since the 14th Amendment took root (despite not being properly ratified), the Constitution took a back seat (as evidenced by all the blatant violations perpetrated nowadays by government).
All this notwithstanding, there is NOTHING in the Constitution proscribing plural (or even "gay") marriages. ALL non-Constitutional statutes are AUTOMATICALLY void ab initio. Some of my polygamous friends are DYING to be charged with "polygamy". It won't happen, because - 1. There are aren't any anti-polygamy statutes, and 2. The Church has signaled law enforcement that it does not want the bigamy statutes tested and overturned.
Joseph Smith received the Melchizedek priesthood in 1829. If you'll remember your LDS history - THERE WAS NO CHURCH AT THAT TIME !!!!!!!!!!!! This is why it is utterly absurd for the Church to excommunicate people (for doctrinal reasons) and insist that their priesthood is canceled. The Church is a product/creation of the Priesthood - not vice versa.
If Heavenly Father signals you to add another wife to your family, it is none of the Church's business. I would no more go back to my elementary school to ask the principal if I can get a driver's license.
More important than any of the above concepts is that you simply DO NOT TRIFLE WITH PLURAL MARRIAGE. I know of situations where a man and his wife were instructed by God to take a plural wife, and the first wife still left (in fact - more often than not).
I know that, in the Church's early years, some leaders took wives while abroad and informed Phoebe through a letter. Joseph Smith concealed a number of his wives from Emma. I DON'T CARE. That is no license for me to do the same. We don't get to heaven by "mimicking" Joseph Smith.
You said:
"I've realized the past few days that I have always been a polygamist at heart".
Many Church members come to such a conclusion. Some stifle the feelings and resolve to "fly below the radar" indefinitely. Others march straight into the Bishop's office and demand to know why the Church repudiated its founders and the exalting doctrines they restored.
Only you can receive the inspiration you need to pursue the best path. Problem is - to whom much is given, much is expected. Your best course is to get as much information as you can about true history and true doctrine, and share it with your wife (if she consents) only as fast as she can absorb and gain a testimony of it.
Lots again to respond to (thanks all of course), but to the very last comment...
ReplyDeleteI am working on that right now. My wife and I have had a few casual conversations about polygamy and the issues we both feel surrounding it. She has informed me that she could never take on a second wife (although I haven't actually asked her to at this point, I think it was slightly preemptive).
I realized our conversations had gone too far, too fast. I may be reading as much as I can get my hands on, but my wife it not at this point. I realized I first need to further my own knowledge and testimony, and slowly introduce truths to her as well. I had her read:
http://en.fairmormon.org/Polygamy/The_only_men_who_become_gods_are_those_that_practice_polygamy
I think she needs to first gain a testimony of polygamy as a true and needed principle of the gospel and our salvation before any other kind of discussion can take place. I'm hopeful she will be more open to learning about polygamy if she initially does so to simply gain faith that it is true and good.
I took a look at that stuff on the FAIR Wiki site. Those guys have a good sense of balance. They don't do what many in the Church do when the word "polygamy" is uttered (namely run for cover !!).
ReplyDeleteJust one small point -
So much of the discussion of polygamy in LDS circles hinges on the "ARE WE REQUIRED TO DO IT?" question. It's a lot like asking, "Am I required to drive a car?" No, you can ride your bike if you want.
This whole "REQUIRED" bit is, honestly, a bit laughable. Have the Latter-day Saints forgotten everything they ever learned about free agency? Was Lance Armstrong REQUIRED to win the Tour De France seven times? Nope. He WANTED TO, and he reaped the rewards.
The other diversion is this whole "go to the Celestial Kingdom" chatter. We have to disabuse ourselves of the silly idea that the "Celestial Kingdom" is some sort of place, like the beautiful meadow on the front cover of a Jehovah's Witness pamphlet. The Celestial Kingdom is a CONDITION. It is the state in which glorified individuals live. It is a set of attributes that afford the person opportunities to do the same things our Father Michael does (make planets, populate them, etc.). You can't instruct or compel a person to attain that condition, any more than you can require me to ride a bike like Lance Armstrong does. It's all voluntary. The brilliance of the Divine plan is that it is designed to get the most out of every individual's potential. No one is required to advance farther than he or she is able OR WANTS TO.
This is why the anti-polygamy propaganda from the Church is so insidious. It stifles the advancement of millions who might otherwise choose to expand their horizons. Conversely, it makes those who wake up (and de-couple themselves from the "Matrix") truly shine as paragons of potential growth.
If you were a God, would you compel all of your posterity to aspire to and achieve the same station? (Dr. Phil calls that "leveling").
My, how misled we have been!!!
The primary reason for her reading the FAIR wiki page is to try and break her from the notion of exactly what you have brought up. That it was something they did for a short time because they "had" to and that it really was just a temporary principle to be practiced for a time and then discontinued. That page has at least made her start to think that she needs to think about things and if she can accept polygamy in her heart as a true principle. After that it's a matter of are we allowed to practice it today? Once she finds an answer to that it's just a question of if she's willing to do it.
ReplyDeleteIt really does bug me how badly the church and many of its' members tuck tail and run at the first sign of a discussion about polygamy, like it was some evil mistake the church committed but finally corrected itself on. Very annoying.